<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.0.4" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The High Cost of Free Parking</title>
	<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26</link>
	<description>raising awareness of people-centered place design</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 03:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4</generator>

	<item>
		<title>by: adaptive path &#187; blog &#187; blog archive &#187; Making Hidden Costs Visible</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-1004</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 09:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-1004</guid>
					<description>[...] It feels better to get &#8220;free parking!&#8220; at your apartment or local grocery store than to pay for parking, even if it might mean lower everyday prices. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] It feels better to get &#8220;free parking!&#8220; at your apartment or local grocery store than to pay for parking, even if it might mean lower everyday prices. [&#8230;]
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: M. Hourigan</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-344</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2006 03:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-344</guid>
					<description>Okay, apparently some people haven't even read the book.  First, Shoup is a Professor at UCLA who gave a lecture at Berkeley.  Second, I am researching for a City Planning paper for downtown Berkeley.  For anyone who hasn't been to the Bay Area or any other dense metropolitan area, paid parking and limiting the parking spaces is a planning tool to lower congestion and automobile accidents, while increasing alternative modes of transportation, which decreases pollution from gas emissions.  Furthermore, parking spaces are NOT a one time cost.  Parking enforcement and maintenance are extremely expensive.  There are also statistics showing that people who don't get to where they need to go driving tend to care more about there community.  Lastly, don't knock public transit.  It gives people who can't afford to drive, aren't old enough to drive, and people who just don't want the hassle of driving (especially in really dense congested areas, such as the Bay Area and Manhatten) means to get around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, apparently some people haven&#8217;t even read the book.  First, Shoup is a Professor at UCLA who gave a lecture at Berkeley.  Second, I am researching for a City Planning paper for downtown Berkeley.  For anyone who hasn&#8217;t been to the Bay Area or any other dense metropolitan area, paid parking and limiting the parking spaces is a planning tool to lower congestion and automobile accidents, while increasing alternative modes of transportation, which decreases pollution from gas emissions.  Furthermore, parking spaces are NOT a one time cost.  Parking enforcement and maintenance are extremely expensive.  There are also statistics showing that people who don&#8217;t get to where they need to go driving tend to care more about there community.  Lastly, don&#8217;t knock public transit.  It gives people who can&#8217;t afford to drive, aren&#8217;t old enough to drive, and people who just don&#8217;t want the hassle of driving (especially in really dense congested areas, such as the Bay Area and Manhatten) means to get around.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Mike Linksvayer &#187; Parking revenue directions</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-149</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 04:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-149</guid>
					<description>[...] September 8 I heard about a Donald Shoup lecture at UC Berkeley via Boing Boing. I&#8217;ve previously mentioned Shoup’s The High Cost of Free Parking. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] September 8 I heard about a Donald Shoup lecture at UC Berkeley via Boing Boing. I&#8217;ve previously mentioned Shoup’s The High Cost of Free Parking. [&#8230;]
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: BDM</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-71</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 00:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-71</guid>
					<description>I'm not sure how many of you have actually read the book.

 You can argue forever about whether or not everyone should subsidize the transportation choices of others or not. We agree it happens, but whether it is acceptable is a matter of opinion.

There are some facts which Shoup proves: 
1) Available parking, not "free" parking, improves the climate for businesses where parking is limited.
2) Parking requirements lead to urban sprawl, and higher costs for housing and other prices we pay as consumers.
3) By hiding the costs of parking, drivers ignore this cost and make more car trips more often than if they paid directly for parking costs.

Leading us back to opinions: Does air quality, dependence on oil, alternative transportation or sustainabilty matter to you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure how many of you have actually read the book.</p>
<p> You can argue forever about whether or not everyone should subsidize the transportation choices of others or not. We agree it happens, but whether it is acceptable is a matter of opinion.</p>
<p>There are some facts which Shoup proves:<br />
1) Available parking, not &#8220;free&#8221; parking, improves the climate for businesses where parking is limited.<br />
2) Parking requirements lead to urban sprawl, and higher costs for housing and other prices we pay as consumers.<br />
3) By hiding the costs of parking, drivers ignore this cost and make more car trips more often than if they paid directly for parking costs.</p>
<p>Leading us back to opinions: Does air quality, dependence on oil, alternative transportation or sustainabilty matter to you?
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Spark Parking Founder&#8217;s Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The High Cost of Free Parking - Lecture Fri Sept 8 at UC Berkeley</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-60</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 23:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-60</guid>
					<description>[...] Sorry for the short notice (and the lack of blogging) but I thought you might like to know that my parking guru Donald Shoup is presenting a 1-hour lecture on The High Cost of Free Parking this Friday, Sept 8 at 4pm on the UC Berkeley campus. This would be a great way to absorb the key points of his excellent book without all that pesky reading time! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Sorry for the short notice (and the lack of blogging) but I thought you might like to know that my parking guru Donald Shoup is presenting a 1-hour lecture on The High Cost of Free Parking this Friday, Sept 8 at 4pm on the UC Berkeley campus. This would be a great way to absorb the key points of his excellent book without all that pesky reading time! [&#8230;]
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: saurabh</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-58</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 18:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-58</guid>
					<description>I don't think people are being that rabid or unreasoned in their responses - the argument is pretty clear: yes, the cost of parking is socialized, but so are many other costs, and arguing that one shouldn't have to pay for parking because one doesn't like it is exactly analagous to saying you don't want art to be subsidized by government grants, you don't want socialized health care, etc. If you think parking lots are an ill, argue against them directly - don't argue against socializing their costs. That's not something that we as a society believe to be wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think people are being that rabid or unreasoned in their responses - the argument is pretty clear: yes, the cost of parking is socialized, but so are many other costs, and arguing that one shouldn&#8217;t have to pay for parking because one doesn&#8217;t like it is exactly analagous to saying you don&#8217;t want art to be subsidized by government grants, you don&#8217;t want socialized health care, etc. If you think parking lots are an ill, argue against them directly - don&#8217;t argue against socializing their costs. That&#8217;s not something that we as a society believe to be wrong.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Scotto</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-57</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-57</guid>
					<description>Wow, I'm honestly surprised at how many of these quotes are rabidly against the theme of this talk, especially since so many of them back up their venom with nothing.  Of course this isn't the biggest issue facing us today, but it's basically a correct analysis.  Nothing is actually free. Seemingly free parking is paid for by someone -- and "someone" in this case is everybody.  Now call me a idealist, loony, pie-in-the-sky capitalist if you will, but I generally prefer systems where the people getting the benefit pay the cost.  

However, it's true that Americans would flee from paid parking, and vendors who lower their prices but charge for parking would lose business.  People want their costs to be hidden.  Wallowing in ignorance is good for business.  If we had to understand the money we were spending on things we would probably riot.  And it's not like people who can't afford cars -- the ones who help pay for our parking but get nothing -- are going to do anything about it.  If they had any power they would buy cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I&#8217;m honestly surprised at how many of these quotes are rabidly against the theme of this talk, especially since so many of them back up their venom with nothing.  Of course this isn&#8217;t the biggest issue facing us today, but it&#8217;s basically a correct analysis.  Nothing is actually free. Seemingly free parking is paid for by someone &#8212; and &#8220;someone&#8221; in this case is everybody.  Now call me a idealist, loony, pie-in-the-sky capitalist if you will, but I generally prefer systems where the people getting the benefit pay the cost.  </p>
<p>However, it&#8217;s true that Americans would flee from paid parking, and vendors who lower their prices but charge for parking would lose business.  People want their costs to be hidden.  Wallowing in ignorance is good for business.  If we had to understand the money we were spending on things we would probably riot.  And it&#8217;s not like people who can&#8217;t afford cars &#8212; the ones who help pay for our parking but get nothing &#8212; are going to do anything about it.  If they had any power they would buy cars.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: BJ</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-56</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-56</guid>
					<description>The university where I work has made this very apparent - you pay to park on campus, and the fees for parking pay for the totally free buses that anyone can ride all around campus (and even to a neighboring university).  If you don't want to pay to park, ride the bus.

It could work better - the surrounding city's bus infrastructure is terrible, and moderately dangerous,  and doesn't serve even slightly suburban areas, whereas if it did, a lot fewer people would drive (I hope).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The university where I work has made this very apparent - you pay to park on campus, and the fees for parking pay for the totally free buses that anyone can ride all around campus (and even to a neighboring university).  If you don&#8217;t want to pay to park, ride the bus.</p>
<p>It could work better - the surrounding city&#8217;s bus infrastructure is terrible, and moderately dangerous,  and doesn&#8217;t serve even slightly suburban areas, whereas if it did, a lot fewer people would drive (I hope).
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Mario WhoCaresAbout</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-55</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-55</guid>
					<description>The whole premise is wrong  as drivers do pay for parking, except that they don't necessarily pay exactly at the time they use it

 As for the people that don't drive at all, they shouldn't be paying at all for parking, yet if they seldom or occasionally use parking they are better off paying a little constantly, a risible amount, then paying the full price of what they have NOT paid before in just a few moments.

Beware of the sirens of privatization, most of the times it doesn't benefit the consumer ; the biggest benefit come from technology invention and practical innovation , the rest is often marketing and cost shifting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole premise is wrong  as drivers do pay for parking, except that they don&#8217;t necessarily pay exactly at the time they use it</p>
<p> As for the people that don&#8217;t drive at all, they shouldn&#8217;t be paying at all for parking, yet if they seldom or occasionally use parking they are better off paying a little constantly, a risible amount, then paying the full price of what they have NOT paid before in just a few moments.</p>
<p>Beware of the sirens of privatization, most of the times it doesn&#8217;t benefit the consumer ; the biggest benefit come from technology invention and practical innovation , the rest is often marketing and cost shifting.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Tee Em</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-54</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-54</guid>
					<description>Em Tee,
  The talk is taking place at UC Berkeley.  The researcher is from UC Los Angeles.  Sponsoring an academic talk (regardless of it's merit) does not equate with support of the theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Em Tee,<br />
  The talk is taking place at UC Berkeley.  The researcher is from UC Los Angeles.  Sponsoring an academic talk (regardless of it&#8217;s merit) does not equate with support of the theory.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Em Tee</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-53</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 16:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-53</guid>
					<description>How about the 13% shut up about free parking, and us 87% will continue to subsidize their public transportation?

It's easy to see Dr. Shoup's motive - who gets the money from parking meters?  The government, of course.  What bugs the socialists in Berkeley is not that everyone pays for something that only 87% of the people use, but that the money goes to the first to private industry instead of the government's coffers.

The socialists need as much money as possible so they can provide "free" stuff to the people who don't support themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about the 13% shut up about free parking, and us 87% will continue to subsidize their public transportation?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy to see Dr. Shoup&#8217;s motive - who gets the money from parking meters?  The government, of course.  What bugs the socialists in Berkeley is not that everyone pays for something that only 87% of the people use, but that the money goes to the first to private industry instead of the government&#8217;s coffers.</p>
<p>The socialists need as much money as possible so they can provide &#8220;free&#8221; stuff to the people who don&#8217;t support themselves.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Joe W.</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-52</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 16:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-52</guid>
					<description>There's an interesting correlation in these comments:  Everybody hates the idea of pay parking -- unless they've actually studied the subject.

In Los Angeles, many new shopping districts, like Old Pasadena or the Beverly Center, have pay parking. These places are immensely popular, in part because they end up being pleasant to be in, without acres of blacktop as far as the eye can see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an interesting correlation in these comments:  Everybody hates the idea of pay parking &#8212; unless they&#8217;ve actually studied the subject.</p>
<p>In Los Angeles, many new shopping districts, like Old Pasadena or the Beverly Center, have pay parking. These places are immensely popular, in part because they end up being pleasant to be in, without acres of blacktop as far as the eye can see.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Voireasion</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-51</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 16:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-51</guid>
					<description>Where ever there is a way (read acceptable excuse) we are charged for parking. Only it is not pennies per hour. 

In every downtown area of a large city I have been to I had to pay for parking. In my locality it ranges from $7 to $12 for a day or about $3 per hour for hourly rates. 

What can we learn from this and from every situation where some greedy person has discovered an excuse to transfer cost to the public? Simple: First someone must sell us on the idea that a cost of business is totally exaggerated and that we would be better off if we the consumers were to pay the expense directly. (Sounds like what I am reading here.)

Next thing you know you are paying yet another fee and low and behold the prices of the goods do not go down even though the business has just reduced it's overhead.

Then come  price increases to the new fee structure and increased profits for the greedy businessmen. It is genius, The business just converted a liability to an asset and the public now pays more.

As an example: remember the telco fee the government recently dropped? Did the telcos ever stop charging us for it? No. Of course they didn't. They took the opportunity to increase there bottom line by converting that fee to one that now fills there greedy pockets rather than the public coffers.

This is a simple fact of life at this point; Any time anyone devises a way to pull money from your pocket you loose and corporate profits increase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where ever there is a way (read acceptable excuse) we are charged for parking. Only it is not pennies per hour. </p>
<p>In every downtown area of a large city I have been to I had to pay for parking. In my locality it ranges from $7 to $12 for a day or about $3 per hour for hourly rates. </p>
<p>What can we learn from this and from every situation where some greedy person has discovered an excuse to transfer cost to the public? Simple: First someone must sell us on the idea that a cost of business is totally exaggerated and that we would be better off if we the consumers were to pay the expense directly. (Sounds like what I am reading here.)</p>
<p>Next thing you know you are paying yet another fee and low and behold the prices of the goods do not go down even though the business has just reduced it&#8217;s overhead.</p>
<p>Then come  price increases to the new fee structure and increased profits for the greedy businessmen. It is genius, The business just converted a liability to an asset and the public now pays more.</p>
<p>As an example: remember the telco fee the government recently dropped? Did the telcos ever stop charging us for it? No. Of course they didn&#8217;t. They took the opportunity to increase there bottom line by converting that fee to one that now fills there greedy pockets rather than the public coffers.</p>
<p>This is a simple fact of life at this point; Any time anyone devises a way to pull money from your pocket you loose and corporate profits increase.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Tom D</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-50</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 16:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-50</guid>
					<description>I worked on a study a few years ago looking at bank's requirements for parking when financing suburban office development.  Typically, these banks were looking for a certain ratio of parking spaces to square feet of office space.  Of course, no one was really sure where that ratio came from, they just checked that it was met when financing the construction.  It turns out that a significant part of that required lot space was never used.  Among the many side effects of this oversupply of parking was that these office developments were quite spread out and thus hard to serve with public transportation (busses).  This, of course, meant that everyone from the bigwigs to the cube grunts to the cleaning staff has to drive to get to work, making traffic and polution worse, and requiring, guess what - more parking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I worked on a study a few years ago looking at bank&#8217;s requirements for parking when financing suburban office development.  Typically, these banks were looking for a certain ratio of parking spaces to square feet of office space.  Of course, no one was really sure where that ratio came from, they just checked that it was met when financing the construction.  It turns out that a significant part of that required lot space was never used.  Among the many side effects of this oversupply of parking was that these office developments were quite spread out and thus hard to serve with public transportation (busses).  This, of course, meant that everyone from the bigwigs to the cube grunts to the cleaning staff has to drive to get to work, making traffic and polution worse, and requiring, guess what - more parking.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: sue r</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-49</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-49</guid>
					<description>Most zoning regulations base their parking requirements on a ULI (Urban Land Institute) recommendation and study.  The study used the parking requirements for the biggest shopping day of the year, right before Christmas, to determine how many parking spaces were required.  Generally,  most of the required spaces sit unused most of the year.  It's quite likely many ordinances require too many parking spaces.

Most zoning codes allow for variances to reduce the amount of parking spaces required, but many municipal boards are scared to grant such variances.  The real estate developer agrees to provide all the required spaces just to get his project approved, even if he's sure that much parking space won't be necessary. 

Parking lots are not usually especially attractive.  It might be a better use of the land if less were parking lots and more was available to be developed, used as parks or whatever other use made good sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most zoning regulations base their parking requirements on a ULI (Urban Land Institute) recommendation and study.  The study used the parking requirements for the biggest shopping day of the year, right before Christmas, to determine how many parking spaces were required.  Generally,  most of the required spaces sit unused most of the year.  It&#8217;s quite likely many ordinances require too many parking spaces.</p>
<p>Most zoning codes allow for variances to reduce the amount of parking spaces required, but many municipal boards are scared to grant such variances.  The real estate developer agrees to provide all the required spaces just to get his project approved, even if he&#8217;s sure that much parking space won&#8217;t be necessary. </p>
<p>Parking lots are not usually especially attractive.  It might be a better use of the land if less were parking lots and more was available to be developed, used as parks or whatever other use made good sense.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-48</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-48</guid>
					<description>Geez, most of you have totally missed the point. I'm pretty sure Shoup isn't proposing eliminating parking or forcing everyone to pay for every parking space -- although that happens naturally due to the laws of supply and demand iin many downtowns and people manage to survive quite nicely.

Shoup's point is that there's no free lunch (or free land) and the cost of providing parking is embedded in the prices people pay and the rents and leases businesses pay. So don't think it's "free" cause it isn't. Further, in many cases local government regulations require more parking spaces than are needed to offer adequate parking for all the reasons people have enumerated.  So, he says, drop the parking requirements -- which add unnecessarily to the cost of development, thus raisingthe embedded parking costs -- and let the marketplace decide what's needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geez, most of you have totally missed the point. I&#8217;m pretty sure Shoup isn&#8217;t proposing eliminating parking or forcing everyone to pay for every parking space &#8212; although that happens naturally due to the laws of supply and demand iin many downtowns and people manage to survive quite nicely.</p>
<p>Shoup&#8217;s point is that there&#8217;s no free lunch (or free land) and the cost of providing parking is embedded in the prices people pay and the rents and leases businesses pay. So don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s &#8220;free&#8221; cause it isn&#8217;t. Further, in many cases local government regulations require more parking spaces than are needed to offer adequate parking for all the reasons people have enumerated.  So, he says, drop the parking requirements &#8212; which add unnecessarily to the cost of development, thus raisingthe embedded parking costs &#8212; and let the marketplace decide what&#8217;s needed.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: humanoid</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-47</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 12:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-47</guid>
					<description>I've never seen a city force a developer to delete sidewalks and motorbike paths from their building plans. But boxy, crowded developments with structures built right up to the legal setback line are now the norm. Even communities with $400k and $500k single family houses are built this way.

Folks are paying a fortune for dwellings that are laid out very much like Soviet apartment blocks. But even Soviet apartments had a few stores within walking distance- these new communities don't.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never seen a city force a developer to delete sidewalks and motorbike paths from their building plans. But boxy, crowded developments with structures built right up to the legal setback line are now the norm. Even communities with $400k and $500k single family houses are built this way.</p>
<p>Folks are paying a fortune for dwellings that are laid out very much like Soviet apartment blocks. But even Soviet apartments had a few stores within walking distance- these new communities don&#8217;t.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: SMARTGUY</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-46</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 12:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-46</guid>
					<description>IM GONNA MAKE A SHOPPING MALL WITH NO PARTKING AND PEOPLE WILL COME THERE AND BUY LOTSA stUFFF@!@@@  THEY CAN RIDE BIKES!!!!  TO MY MALL.  I PUT A NEW TIRE ON MY BIKE NOW MY BAIKE IS FAAAAAAAAST!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IM GONNA MAKE A SHOPPING MALL WITH NO PARTKING AND PEOPLE WILL COME THERE AND BUY LOTSA <a href="mailto:stUFFF@!@@@">stUFFF@!@@@</a>  THEY CAN RIDE BIKES!!!!  TO MY MALL.  I PUT A NEW TIRE ON MY BIKE NOW MY BAIKE IS FAAAAAAAAST!!!
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-45</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 08:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-45</guid>
					<description>Let me preface this all by saying that I spent fifteen minutes today looking for parking in San Francisco's Chinatown, and paid well over a dollar for thirty minutes once I landed. I think that was completely fair, although in hindsight I'd have been smart to take the train!

Anyway. If there are similar places to shop, and one starts charging for parking, all things being equal, consumers will shun the one that charges. According to many, the cost and inconvenience of parking downtown (including limited availability and the risk of a ticket) has led to the rise of the suburban shopping center at the expense of city merchants.

But what if both downtown and the mall started charging to park? And what if there's a good bus or train to get people from their homes to downtown? Then shopping downtown becomes a whole lot more appealing, at least for many.

As with everything, the debate becomes a matter of priorities. Those who love their cars will of course be loath to be pay any more for the lifestyle they've grown accustomed to, and regard sprawl as an acceptable consequence or even desirable result of their space-loving ways. However, people who value European-style density or the environment would love to see the footprint of big-boxes shrink and transportation to become both more appealing and more practical.

Finally, I don't think everyone's bought into the idea that the lower cost of providing parking would get passed on to all consumers. However, there's evidence of similar changes. Ryanair recently reduced all its fares by a few euros, but at the same time started charging passengers a few euros per checked bag. Similarly, if the average trip to Target were lowered by $1 because of reduced parking costs, and the cost to park were $1, drivers end up paying the same price in the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me preface this all by saying that I spent fifteen minutes today looking for parking in San Francisco&#8217;s Chinatown, and paid well over a dollar for thirty minutes once I landed. I think that was completely fair, although in hindsight I&#8217;d have been smart to take the train!</p>
<p>Anyway. If there are similar places to shop, and one starts charging for parking, all things being equal, consumers will shun the one that charges. According to many, the cost and inconvenience of parking downtown (including limited availability and the risk of a ticket) has led to the rise of the suburban shopping center at the expense of city merchants.</p>
<p>But what if both downtown and the mall started charging to park? And what if there&#8217;s a good bus or train to get people from their homes to downtown? Then shopping downtown becomes a whole lot more appealing, at least for many.</p>
<p>As with everything, the debate becomes a matter of priorities. Those who love their cars will of course be loath to be pay any more for the lifestyle they&#8217;ve grown accustomed to, and regard sprawl as an acceptable consequence or even desirable result of their space-loving ways. However, people who value European-style density or the environment would love to see the footprint of big-boxes shrink and transportation to become both more appealing and more practical.</p>
<p>Finally, I don&#8217;t think everyone&#8217;s bought into the idea that the lower cost of providing parking would get passed on to all consumers. However, there&#8217;s evidence of similar changes. Ryanair recently reduced all its fares by a few euros, but at the same time started charging passengers a few euros per checked bag. Similarly, if the average trip to Target were lowered by $1 because of reduced parking costs, and the cost to park were $1, drivers end up paying the same price in the end.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: UCB'92.5</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-44</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 05:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-44</guid>
					<description>Let us also be sure we charge for "Free Jazz Concerts" and "Free Health Clinics" since those obviously create unabsorbed externalities in the economy as well.  Each put a stress on the economies of Jazz and Medicine, each puts a higher cost on those who provide their services for a fee.

If I can find a way to tax "Free Love", I'd suggest we do that as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let us also be sure we charge for &#8220;Free Jazz Concerts&#8221; and &#8220;Free Health Clinics&#8221; since those obviously create unabsorbed externalities in the economy as well.  Each put a stress on the economies of Jazz and Medicine, each puts a higher cost on those who provide their services for a fee.</p>
<p>If I can find a way to tax &#8220;Free Love&#8221;, I&#8217;d suggest we do that as well.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-43</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 04:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-43</guid>
					<description>I live in Worcester MA, where not to long ago The Common Fashion Outlets was closed... The mall relied on an adjacent parking structure that collected fees from mallgoers while the mall's chief competitors, The Greendale and Auburn malls flourished despite being farther away from the city. Both The Greendale Auburn Malls had free parking readily accessible at the front. This shows that the individual consumer is willing to pay a very minute price for the ability to quickly park without the added burden of digging for meter change. My only question is why was this article Boinged?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in Worcester MA, where not to long ago The Common Fashion Outlets was closed&#8230; The mall relied on an adjacent parking structure that collected fees from mallgoers while the mall&#8217;s chief competitors, The Greendale and Auburn malls flourished despite being farther away from the city. Both The Greendale Auburn Malls had free parking readily accessible at the front. This shows that the individual consumer is willing to pay a very minute price for the ability to quickly park without the added burden of digging for meter change. My only question is why was this article Boinged?
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Mike Vance</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-42</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 02:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-42</guid>
					<description>As far as I am concerned, adequate parking is a requirement of existing as an organization.  You provide for your employees/customers/victims (this last is for governmental issues).  Paid parking is an error condition, indicating that someone, usually several someones, is lacking in competence.

For the most part, paid parking areas are a no-go zone for me.  I either have to have some pressing need to be where paying for parking is required or I have been tricked somehow.  I am stuck with paying for parking to get to my job, as my employer dropped that ball rather badly, this counts against them.  As it is, Dearborn Michigan was putting in parking meters and lot gates last year in one of the business districts.  I haven't been back since.

The cost of paid parking = no chance of my business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I am concerned, adequate parking is a requirement of existing as an organization.  You provide for your employees/customers/victims (this last is for governmental issues).  Paid parking is an error condition, indicating that someone, usually several someones, is lacking in competence.</p>
<p>For the most part, paid parking areas are a no-go zone for me.  I either have to have some pressing need to be where paying for parking is required or I have been tricked somehow.  I am stuck with paying for parking to get to my job, as my employer dropped that ball rather badly, this counts against them.  As it is, Dearborn Michigan was putting in parking meters and lot gates last year in one of the business districts.  I haven&#8217;t been back since.</p>
<p>The cost of paid parking = no chance of my business.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: David Culberson</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-41</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 01:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-41</guid>
					<description>Well, obviously this guy's on to something, looking at all the resistance people are putting up to even discussing it..

-David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, obviously this guy&#8217;s on to something, looking at all the resistance people are putting up to even discussing it..</p>
<p>-David
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: AMA</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-40</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 00:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-40</guid>
					<description>"Cities never needed planning before, they don’t need them now."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Haussmann

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Wren</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Cities never needed planning before, they don’t need them now.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Haussmann' rel='nofollow'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Haussmann</a></p>
<p><a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Wren' rel='nofollow'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Wren</a>
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Larry Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-39</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 00:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.thisplaceis.com/archives/26#comment-39</guid>
					<description>And yes, the implication is that if you can walk or bicycle or take the subway and instead choose to drive, you're a socially irresponsible planet-heating mideast-war-inciting yob.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yes, the implication is that if you can walk or bicycle or take the subway and instead choose to drive, you&#8217;re a socially irresponsible planet-heating mideast-war-inciting yob.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
